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	<title>Comments on: Writing Contemporary Worship Music: A Webinar</title>
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	<description>The Talking Mirror - Humor, Satire, and Cultural Criticism. We were in the newspaper once.</description>
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		<title>By: Kent</title>
		<link>http://thetalkingmirror.com/writing-contemporary-worship-music-a-webinar/comment-page-2#comment-5408</link>
		<dc:creator>Kent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:47:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetalkingmirror.com/?p=1367#comment-5408</guid>
		<description>Nate,

Thanks for the comment.  I agree there is a difference between mocking pagan priests and mocking a brother in Christ, but I disagree that satire is appropriate in one setting and inappropriate in the other.  The Bible doesn&#039;t really advocate one standard of behavior toward non-Christians and another toward Christians.  We&#039;re supposed to treat everyone with love and &quot;love our neighbors as ourselves&quot; be they pagans or fellow parishioners.  

The question then becomes: is satire an acceptable form of Christian discourse or is it not?  I feel that it is and I believe scripture supports it.  Look at the life of Christ.  He was a Jew and yet he directed his harshest language at his Jewish &quot;brothers&quot; in positions of spiritual leadership.  He never shied away from an opportunity to make the Pharisees look foolish.  Why then should we hesitate in ridiculing church leaders when they engage in what we believe to be destructive activities/teachings (i.e. greedy televangelists, watered-down megachurch theology, superficial worship songs, Joel Osteen, etc)?

As to whether satire is the &quot;best way&quot; to effect change.  No, it&#039;s probably not &quot;the best way.&quot; But it is a way.  The best way would probably be to do what Stuart Townsend, Chris Rice, and others are doing and write challenging, theologically-driven worship songs that present people with a more meaningful alternative.  Unfortunately, I don&#039;t play an instrument and I have a terrible singing voice.  So I post satirical articles on my website.  I don&#039;t think I&#039;m going to spark a revolution in the worship industry, but I do believe I am adding a valuable perspective to the conversation.  I&#039;d have a hard time doing this if I didn&#039;t think it was worth something.

-Kent</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nate,</p>
<p>Thanks for the comment.  I agree there is a difference between mocking pagan priests and mocking a brother in Christ, but I disagree that satire is appropriate in one setting and inappropriate in the other.  The Bible doesn&#8217;t really advocate one standard of behavior toward non-Christians and another toward Christians.  We&#8217;re supposed to treat everyone with love and &#8220;love our neighbors as ourselves&#8221; be they pagans or fellow parishioners.  </p>
<p>The question then becomes: is satire an acceptable form of Christian discourse or is it not?  I feel that it is and I believe scripture supports it.  Look at the life of Christ.  He was a Jew and yet he directed his harshest language at his Jewish &#8220;brothers&#8221; in positions of spiritual leadership.  He never shied away from an opportunity to make the Pharisees look foolish.  Why then should we hesitate in ridiculing church leaders when they engage in what we believe to be destructive activities/teachings (i.e. greedy televangelists, watered-down megachurch theology, superficial worship songs, Joel Osteen, etc)?</p>
<p>As to whether satire is the &#8220;best way&#8221; to effect change.  No, it&#8217;s probably not &#8220;the best way.&#8221; But it is a way.  The best way would probably be to do what Stuart Townsend, Chris Rice, and others are doing and write challenging, theologically-driven worship songs that present people with a more meaningful alternative.  Unfortunately, I don&#8217;t play an instrument and I have a terrible singing voice.  So I post satirical articles on my website.  I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m going to spark a revolution in the worship industry, but I do believe I am adding a valuable perspective to the conversation.  I&#8217;d have a hard time doing this if I didn&#8217;t think it was worth something.</p>
<p>-Kent</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Kent</title>
		<link>http://thetalkingmirror.com/writing-contemporary-worship-music-a-webinar/comment-page-2#comment-18420</link>
		<dc:creator>Kent</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 21 Jan 2010 17:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetalkingmirror.com/?p=1367#comment-18420</guid>
		<description>Nate,

Thanks for the comment.  I agree there is a difference between mocking pagan priests and mocking a brother in Christ, but I disagree that satire is appropriate in one setting and inappropriate in the other.  The Bible doesn&#039;t really advocate one standard of behavior toward non-Christians and another toward Christians.  We&#039;re supposed to treat everyone with love and &quot;love our neighbors as ourselves&quot; be they pagans or fellow parishioners.  

The question then becomes: is satire an acceptable form of Christian discourse or is it not?  I feel that it is and I believe scripture supports it.  Look at the life of Christ.  He was a Jew and yet he directed his harshest language at his Jewish &quot;brothers&quot; in positions of spiritual leadership.  He never shied away from an opportunity to make the Pharisees look foolish.  Why then should we hesitate in ridiculing church leaders when they engage in what we believe to be destructive activities/teachings (i.e. greedy televangelists, watered-down megachurch theology, superficial worship songs, Joel Osteen, etc)?

As to whether satire is the &quot;best way&quot; to effect change.  No, it&#039;s probably not &quot;the best way.&quot; But it is a way.  The best way would probably be to do what Stuart Townsend, Chris Rice, and others are doing and write challenging, theologically-driven worship songs that present people with a more meaningful alternative.  Unfortunately, I don&#039;t play an instrument and I have a terrible singing voice.  So I post satirical articles on my website.  I don&#039;t think I&#039;m going to spark a revolution in the worship industry, but I do believe I am adding a valuable perspective to the conversation.  I&#039;d have a hard time doing this if I didn&#039;t think it was worth something.

-Kent</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Nate,</p>
<p>Thanks for the comment.  I agree there is a difference between mocking pagan priests and mocking a brother in Christ, but I disagree that satire is appropriate in one setting and inappropriate in the other.  The Bible doesn&#8217;t really advocate one standard of behavior toward non-Christians and another toward Christians.  We&#8217;re supposed to treat everyone with love and &#8220;love our neighbors as ourselves&#8221; be they pagans or fellow parishioners.  </p>
<p>The question then becomes: is satire an acceptable form of Christian discourse or is it not?  I feel that it is and I believe scripture supports it.  Look at the life of Christ.  He was a Jew and yet he directed his harshest language at his Jewish &#8220;brothers&#8221; in positions of spiritual leadership.  He never shied away from an opportunity to make the Pharisees look foolish.  Why then should we hesitate in ridiculing church leaders when they engage in what we believe to be destructive activities/teachings (i.e. greedy televangelists, watered-down megachurch theology, superficial worship songs, Joel Osteen, etc)?</p>
<p>As to whether satire is the &#8220;best way&#8221; to effect change.  No, it&#8217;s probably not &#8220;the best way.&#8221; But it is a way.  The best way would probably be to do what Stuart Townsend, Chris Rice, and others are doing and write challenging, theologically-driven worship songs that present people with a more meaningful alternative.  Unfortunately, I don&#8217;t play an instrument and I have a terrible singing voice.  So I post satirical articles on my website.  I don&#8217;t think I&#8217;m going to spark a revolution in the worship industry, but I do believe I am adding a valuable perspective to the conversation.  I&#8217;d have a hard time doing this if I didn&#8217;t think it was worth something.</p>
<p>-Kent</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nate</title>
		<link>http://thetalkingmirror.com/writing-contemporary-worship-music-a-webinar/comment-page-2#comment-5380</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 15:20:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetalkingmirror.com/?p=1367#comment-5380</guid>
		<description>Kent,
I believe that first kings passage you shared earlier was Elijah mocking the pagan priests for thinking their gods could start a fire on their alter. Probably a little different situation mocking someone so sure of their &quot;god&quot; and mocking fellow brothers in Christ. I think this piece is witty and funny if it&#039;s purely to poke fun at how something looks, but if you&#039;re actually trying to get ppl to reconsider the way they worship, is this the best way?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kent,<br />
I believe that first kings passage you shared earlier was Elijah mocking the pagan priests for thinking their gods could start a fire on their alter. Probably a little different situation mocking someone so sure of their &#8220;god&#8221; and mocking fellow brothers in Christ. I think this piece is witty and funny if it&#8217;s purely to poke fun at how something looks, but if you&#8217;re actually trying to get ppl to reconsider the way they worship, is this the best way?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Nate</title>
		<link>http://thetalkingmirror.com/writing-contemporary-worship-music-a-webinar/comment-page-2#comment-18419</link>
		<dc:creator>Nate</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 20 Jan 2010 15:20:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetalkingmirror.com/?p=1367#comment-18419</guid>
		<description>Kent,
I believe that first kings passage you shared earlier was Elijah mocking the pagan priests for thinking their gods could start a fire on their alter. Probably a little different situation mocking someone so sure of their &quot;god&quot; and mocking fellow brothers in Christ. I think this piece is witty and funny if it&#039;s purely to poke fun at how something looks, but if you&#039;re actually trying to get ppl to reconsider the way they worship, is this the best way?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Kent,<br />
I believe that first kings passage you shared earlier was Elijah mocking the pagan priests for thinking their gods could start a fire on their alter. Probably a little different situation mocking someone so sure of their &#8220;god&#8221; and mocking fellow brothers in Christ. I think this piece is witty and funny if it&#8217;s purely to poke fun at how something looks, but if you&#8217;re actually trying to get ppl to reconsider the way they worship, is this the best way?</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: brahms</title>
		<link>http://thetalkingmirror.com/writing-contemporary-worship-music-a-webinar/comment-page-2#comment-4427</link>
		<dc:creator>brahms</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 22:12:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetalkingmirror.com/?p=1367#comment-4427</guid>
		<description>&quot;To be fair, couldn’t you write similar satire directed at *any* genre of popular music? I mean…blues, 80’s rock ballads, grunge, dance tunes, disco… There’s a lampoon-able cookie cutter for nearly every genre out there. You might even argue that the fact of being a musical genre makes it cookie cutter-esque. The similarities that keep it properly within the genre predispose the music to formulae such as those exposed by the article.&quot;

Not to the extent that one can with worship music.  Take, for example, Mraz, Mayer, and Jack Johnson.  Similar genre, but their interpretations of that genre differ greatly in chord voicings, rhythms, and song formats.  They also use many more concrete nouns and verbs than do the vast majority of praise songs.

I would say the next most cliche style to worship music is country music... and even it does better at stepping outside the box.

I blame it on the oversimplification of people&#039;s comprehension of the spiritual world.  That and an unwillingness to learn how to craft songs better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;To be fair, couldn’t you write similar satire directed at *any* genre of popular music? I mean…blues, 80’s rock ballads, grunge, dance tunes, disco… There’s a lampoon-able cookie cutter for nearly every genre out there. You might even argue that the fact of being a musical genre makes it cookie cutter-esque. The similarities that keep it properly within the genre predispose the music to formulae such as those exposed by the article.&#8221;</p>
<p>Not to the extent that one can with worship music.  Take, for example, Mraz, Mayer, and Jack Johnson.  Similar genre, but their interpretations of that genre differ greatly in chord voicings, rhythms, and song formats.  They also use many more concrete nouns and verbs than do the vast majority of praise songs.</p>
<p>I would say the next most cliche style to worship music is country music&#8230; and even it does better at stepping outside the box.</p>
<p>I blame it on the oversimplification of people&#8217;s comprehension of the spiritual world.  That and an unwillingness to learn how to craft songs better.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: brahms</title>
		<link>http://thetalkingmirror.com/writing-contemporary-worship-music-a-webinar/comment-page-2#comment-18418</link>
		<dc:creator>brahms</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 08 Dec 2009 22:12:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetalkingmirror.com/?p=1367#comment-18418</guid>
		<description>&quot;To be fair, couldn’t you write similar satire directed at *any* genre of popular music? I mean…blues, 80’s rock ballads, grunge, dance tunes, disco… There’s a lampoon-able cookie cutter for nearly every genre out there. You might even argue that the fact of being a musical genre makes it cookie cutter-esque. The similarities that keep it properly within the genre predispose the music to formulae such as those exposed by the article.&quot;

Not to the extent that one can with worship music.  Take, for example, Mraz, Mayer, and Jack Johnson.  Similar genre, but their interpretations of that genre differ greatly in chord voicings, rhythms, and song formats.  They also use many more concrete nouns and verbs than do the vast majority of praise songs.

I would say the next most cliche style to worship music is country music... and even it does better at stepping outside the box.

I blame it on the oversimplification of people&#039;s comprehension of the spiritual world.  That and an unwillingness to learn how to craft songs better.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;To be fair, couldn’t you write similar satire directed at *any* genre of popular music? I mean…blues, 80’s rock ballads, grunge, dance tunes, disco… There’s a lampoon-able cookie cutter for nearly every genre out there. You might even argue that the fact of being a musical genre makes it cookie cutter-esque. The similarities that keep it properly within the genre predispose the music to formulae such as those exposed by the article.&#8221;</p>
<p>Not to the extent that one can with worship music.  Take, for example, Mraz, Mayer, and Jack Johnson.  Similar genre, but their interpretations of that genre differ greatly in chord voicings, rhythms, and song formats.  They also use many more concrete nouns and verbs than do the vast majority of praise songs.</p>
<p>I would say the next most cliche style to worship music is country music&#8230; and even it does better at stepping outside the box.</p>
<p>I blame it on the oversimplification of people&#8217;s comprehension of the spiritual world.  That and an unwillingness to learn how to craft songs better.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Conor Manning</title>
		<link>http://thetalkingmirror.com/writing-contemporary-worship-music-a-webinar/comment-page-2#comment-2804</link>
		<dc:creator>Conor Manning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 14:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetalkingmirror.com/?p=1367#comment-2804</guid>
		<description>Trent:
One reason for worship being so &quot;upbeat&quot; could be found in the very definition of worship: the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity. It doesn&#039;t say &quot;piss and moan about how much life isn&#039;t going your way&quot; its about finding reasons to thank God despite your current life situation. Teaching is for dealing with life&#039;s issues, and helping people grow on a personal level, worship is about honoring God for being God.

That being said, I can&#039;t listen to Christian radio, I also find the songs repetitive and childish. I don&#039;t understand how singing that &quot;I am a friend of God, He calls me friend&quot; is expressing reverence or adoration for anything...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trent:<br />
One reason for worship being so &#8220;upbeat&#8221; could be found in the very definition of worship: the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity. It doesn&#8217;t say &#8220;piss and moan about how much life isn&#8217;t going your way&#8221; its about finding reasons to thank God despite your current life situation. Teaching is for dealing with life&#8217;s issues, and helping people grow on a personal level, worship is about honoring God for being God.</p>
<p>That being said, I can&#8217;t listen to Christian radio, I also find the songs repetitive and childish. I don&#8217;t understand how singing that &#8220;I am a friend of God, He calls me friend&#8221; is expressing reverence or adoration for anything&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: Conor Manning</title>
		<link>http://thetalkingmirror.com/writing-contemporary-worship-music-a-webinar/comment-page-2#comment-18417</link>
		<dc:creator>Conor Manning</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 29 Sep 2009 14:10:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetalkingmirror.com/?p=1367#comment-18417</guid>
		<description>Trent:
One reason for worship being so &quot;upbeat&quot; could be found in the very definition of worship: the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity. It doesn&#039;t say &quot;piss and moan about how much life isn&#039;t going your way&quot; its about finding reasons to thank God despite your current life situation. Teaching is for dealing with life&#039;s issues, and helping people grow on a personal level, worship is about honoring God for being God.

That being said, I can&#039;t listen to Christian radio, I also find the songs repetitive and childish. I don&#039;t understand how singing that &quot;I am a friend of God, He calls me friend&quot; is expressing reverence or adoration for anything...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Trent:<br />
One reason for worship being so &#8220;upbeat&#8221; could be found in the very definition of worship: the feeling or expression of reverence and adoration for a deity. It doesn&#8217;t say &#8220;piss and moan about how much life isn&#8217;t going your way&#8221; its about finding reasons to thank God despite your current life situation. Teaching is for dealing with life&#8217;s issues, and helping people grow on a personal level, worship is about honoring God for being God.</p>
<p>That being said, I can&#8217;t listen to Christian radio, I also find the songs repetitive and childish. I don&#8217;t understand how singing that &#8220;I am a friend of God, He calls me friend&#8221; is expressing reverence or adoration for anything&#8230;</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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	<item>
		<title>By: esther</title>
		<link>http://thetalkingmirror.com/writing-contemporary-worship-music-a-webinar/comment-page-2#comment-1798</link>
		<dc:creator>esther</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:47:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetalkingmirror.com/?p=1367#comment-1798</guid>
		<description>Rich is now a fan. I showed him your Brett Farve article which led to the worship webinar. Entertaining for sure. We even read the bantar and the satire apologetics at the end.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rich is now a fan. I showed him your Brett Farve article which led to the worship webinar. Entertaining for sure. We even read the bantar and the satire apologetics at the end.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
	</item>
	<item>
		<title>By: esther</title>
		<link>http://thetalkingmirror.com/writing-contemporary-worship-music-a-webinar/comment-page-2#comment-18416</link>
		<dc:creator>esther</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 27 Jul 2009 16:47:00 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://thetalkingmirror.com/?p=1367#comment-18416</guid>
		<description>Rich is now a fan. I showed him your Brett Farve article which led to the worship webinar. Entertaining for sure. We even read the bantar and the satire apologetics at the end.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Rich is now a fan. I showed him your Brett Farve article which led to the worship webinar. Entertaining for sure. We even read the bantar and the satire apologetics at the end.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
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